You have made this a great post — ie, one in which we really examine and learn about Hercules. I will ponder this and react in a subsequent post.

incidentally, your comment reminded my of Dostoyevsky in Crime and Punishment: Are some people so “great” that they are above the law, or above morality, above good and evil? That’s what Hercules’ story seems in part to be about.

As to his place in modern imagination I think comes down to power and the place modern superheros have in our society. Part of it is what you said. The world is a dangerous place and people take comfort in thinking that there is someone powerful enough standing at the door with a big club to keep the bad guys away. Even Ares, the personification of the violence of warfare was defeated by him.

The other part or perhaps an extension of that is power and the abuse of it. Throughout human history there have always been those who abuse power or who seem to transcend mortal rules. Zeus and the other gods were laws unto themselves save for Fate. As long as they did not screw up the cosmic order they got to do just about whatever they wanted. If someone wronged them they could get retribution by unleashing a plague, monster, or some other kind of calamity. The gods were all-powerful, eternal, and were probable viewed as transcending human morals and laws.

Then you have mortals who live short lives and are weak by comparison. Mortals have laws and customs to govern them. Yet, throughout history there have always been people who thought the rules did not apply to them. If a rich man or noble feels someone of lower rank has cheated him he can avenge the insult a number of ways. One is to take him to court and the rich man stands a good chance of winning whether through better knowledge of the law, bribing the judge, or some other act. Even outside the law there there are other things the noble could do depending on the culture and age one lived in. The man of lower rank has limited options. Even if he takes the noble to court and is in the right he could still lose the case. He cannot afford as good as lawyers, he cannot pay off the judges, etc. About the best he can do is pray for divine retribution and hope some comes down eventually.

In the middle you have demigods like Hercules. Everyone has days where they feel someone has slighted them, hear of an injustice, or something else and wishes they could do something about it. But due to lack of power and the need of an ordered society we cannot do much if anything about it. Hercules however, and other demigods to an extent, could do something about it. They are the wish fulfillment of seeing an injustice, knowing it is wrong, and being able to actually do something about it. I think that is why stories of Hercules and other Greek heroes deposing of tyrants tend to be about as popular as slaying monsters. Having the power to right wrongs links them in a way with modern superheroes like Batman or “The Man With No Name” that Clint Eastwood used to play.

One can use the story of King Laomedon of Troy. Laomedon promised to reward the gods Poseidon and Apollo for building Troy’s famous walls. When it came time to pay he refused. Poseidon being a god sought retribution by sending a sea monster to attack the city. Hercules agreed to kill it in exchange for payment. He killed the monster, but once again Laomedon refused to pay. If this happened to you or I we would not be able to do anything about it. Laomedon is king and has an army. But since Hercules had the power to do something about it he and his allies sacked the city and killed Laomedon.

Hercules is so strong that in a way he transcends mortal boundaries. If he gets out of control no one around can stop him. Despite this he is still mortal and lives in the mortal world. So boundaries that were never meant to constrain someone like him try to. He lives in two completely different world and has no real place in either. I think that is why he comes across as psychotic at times.

I think a final part is that contrary to many modern heroes Hercules is deeply flawed. Despite all of his power and glory he is far from perfect. This makes him more relateable than perfect heroes like Superman. Superman always knows the right thing to do, never seems to mess up, had a perfect home life, and is all around perfect. Hercules’s life is about as screwed up as one can get, but he still tries to do the right thing and stay within the boundaries of mortal society.

Do we sympathize him? I think as much as any other person whose life tends to be a mess often due to things beyond their control. Do we emulate him? I think one can emulate the heroic parts of him. The part that accepts one has flaws, but tries to do good anyway. The part that despite having the power to transcend the law accepts the law still applies to them and acts accordingly. One is aware of his faults and does not try to follow them, but knows that he is more like a human than a distant god. I think in the end with Hercules one has to remember that the idea of perfect human is an ideal. It is something people can try to emulate, but in the end have to realize we are all flawed in some way. Despite this we can stil do good in the world.

OK, I think I know where you think this is going…

welcome to The Hannibal Blog and this thread. I love your comment and analysis. You are making me re-think Hercules and his heroism (and that is the point of this thread).

As you interpret him — and quite plausibly — he begins to sound almost like an antihero. “Coming up short in life,” as you put it. This is novel and original.

He now sounds almost psychotic and in need of help, were he not endowed with such strength.

And if he breaks all the rules in his tantrums, he also obeys “larger” rules — the law, as it were — by submitting to his various punishments.

What, then, do you think his place in our modern imagination is? Do we sympathize with him, emulate him …?

I corrected the 7th labor above. Thanks!

You state how he is beyond morality. You state: “Ask yourself how plausible that is. Why wouldn’t Hercules just bash his cousin’s head in?). Hercules’s labors prove he is not beyond morality. Several times in his life he is punished for his actions when he had the strength to avoid punishment. One time Hercules killed his lyre teacher and was banished to the country side as punishment. The Labors are another punishment. A third time in a fit of rage not blamed on Hera he lost control and killed someone. He was sold into slavery to Queen Omphale even being force to dress in women’s clothes. A final time was late in his life he killed the servant of a king he was visiting. He went into exile even though the king did not hold the death against him because it was what was required by law.

The Greeks had an idea that certain actions and crimes created spiritual pollution one had to purify themselves of. Hercules’s willingness to under go punishments makes him a hero because despite his great power he under went them anyway respecting the order of things. He did what was right.

Hercules did many things that in modern day we would not find acceptable and even back then might be considered inexcusable. He tended to kill people who wronged him even at times destroying entire cities. He was a womanizer with temper problems. His flaws were many. These traits in a way make him more relatable than examples of moral paragons like Superman. Other parts of this is the different values from different cultures.

Hercules was the ultimate Greek hero. He achieved great fame for slaying monsters thus making the world a safe place for humans. Most of the kings he killed were tyrants or people who welshed on payments for services rendered. He quite literally one time fought Death itself for a friend in need. Yet, despite all of his great power and deeds he was tormented his entire life. Whether it be by Hera or his uncontrollable temper. Instead of ignoring the proper order of things and doing whatever he wanted he actually subjugated himself to punishment setting an example for others.

Ironically, much of the suffering in his life is the fault of his father Zeus. Zeus bragged about how he was going to turn Hercules into a great king setting Hera against him. He did little to stop Hera from tormenting Hercules even though she inflicted more pain on him than any of his his other children or lovers. The only reason he was born was Zeus wanted him to serve as a weapon in the Gigantomachy.

So, in the end I think Hercules is more complex than you make him out to be. He was portrayed as unbeatable in battle in myth going so far as to defeat several gods (Ares, Hades, a river god) . But for all of his power he constantly found himself coming up short in life culminating in his death by his current wife’s betrayal.

Two other minor details:

1. You are correct in Theseus and Hercules were regarded as contemporaries. According to some stories they invented Pankration, a mixed martial art of boxing and wrestling. In another story Hercules rescued Theseus from the underworld.

2. The seventh labor was actually to capture the Cretan bull not the Minotaur. The Cretan Bull was a giant bull sent the sea-god Poseidon that fathered the Minotaur.

The Great Hercule Poirot; an intellectual Hercules.

(aha, The Atlas Mountains).

(By definition, of course, archetypes are timeless.)

For a long time I didn’t realize that Ulysses and Odysseus were the same person. Siegfried/Sigurd. Etc

This could describe Clint Eastwood’s screen characters, “The Man With No Name” from the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns, and “Dirty Harry” Callahan. I always found these two characters very powerful, no doubt because they are hero archetypes, and resonated somewhere in the depths of my Jungian psyche.

On second thought, though, did you double-check the Greek original and verify the translation? Because perhaps Hera didn’t feed the kid for a week and then gave him two poisonous snakes in hopes the starving toddler would greedily devour them. In fact, the latter strategy may have worked better to off lil’ Hercules. So you’re right. The ophidians were probably venomous. After all, our hero survived.

I had no idea that Hercules and Heracles were the same person. I always thought Heracles was Heraclitus. Looks like I’ve got a nice Greek hero salad going on in my head.